PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

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PantherCult
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby PantherCult » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:43 pm

I did really enjoy having access to some of the LE's this season - but I agree that that might be the quickest, most elegant solution to the "too much superman" phenomenon.

While I thought Goblin Princess was the absolute best proxy for Clea - I only played her once or twice. Sentinel of the Skyways was pretty essential to my victory in the Zombie Scenario and I definitely got my mileage out of Dark Beast.

the problem of course becomes that technically there's no such thing as an "LE" any more. the days of the bronze ring on the figure are gone. Now, chase figures and tournament prizes are marked with a Super Rare rarity tab. I suppose we could set down an agreement regarding what qualifies as an "LE" in the modern sets as basically anything outside of the 60 figure base set and then create exceptions for Professor Zoom, Phantom Stranger and Skymax (not that anyone's going to be dying to play those anyway).
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Stimpy » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:47 pm

PantherCult wrote:I did really enjoy having access to some of the LE's this season - but I agree that that might be the quickest, most elegant solution to the "too much superman" phenomenon.

While I thought Goblin Princess was the absolute best proxy for Clea - I only played her once or twice. Sentinel of the Skyways was pretty essential to my victory in the Zombie Scenario and I definitely got my mileage out of Dark Beast.

the problem of course becomes that technically there's no such thing as an "LE" any more. the days of the bronze ring on the figure are gone. Now, chase figures and tournament prizes are marked with a Super Rare rarity tab. I suppose we could set down an agreement regarding what qualifies as an "LE" in the modern sets as basically anything outside of the 60 figure base set and then create exceptions for Professor Zoom, Phantom Stranger and Skymax (not that anyone's going to be dying to play those anyway).


Exactly... there are not LE's anymore, so how do you distinguish? Supes is awesome no doubt. But if he is REALLY unbeatable, ban him if he isn't keep him.... how hard is that? Yeah badger did well with him, but didnt win the league... who did? 5-5 PC! Heck I was the leage's whipping boy this year inspite of Ditka's confidence in me LOL. But I gave the eventual champ his first loss. And only a pretty lucky roll let supes and badger beat me.

And isn't that what trading and such is for? Build to BEAT supes. I am not saying he isnt excessive, but if you look at the newer sets, more and more things are becoming rough. Remeber how we all coughed at M&M stats as they came out? And who benifitted most from that release?? PC the champ. who picked up many near broken hulks, and several other great pieces. (surfer, beast, angel etc). Point in fact he got more than 20 percent of that release added to his roster... BAN THE HULK!!! <shrug> I can only think if this newest doom was out I would have surely used him. A lot. How does the SUperskrull Illuminati stack with Supes? without outwit to use against him, that guy is awful.

Are those Supes that suepr broken on their own? or with feats? I have not played with or against them that much. we could ban feats on first rounders... LOL. Who knows?

But as far as the LE's it widens the choices for very many figs. And bumps pieces like Kyle from 4th to 2nd round. I like them and again, they are not making LE anymore so we would have to ban by rarity. Perhaps there should be a list before the start of the season. Every captian can submit one single fig they think is overpowered to ban or limit somehow. If that takes out 5 supes, perhaps blue-boy won't go first. but as long as people know well in advance what will not be played they can adjust draft accordingly. of course this should be done before draft order is determined. Just an idea.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby K26dp » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:30 pm

Stimpy wrote:Exactly... there are not LE's anymore, so how do you distinguish?

Eh, I know 'em when I see 'em. They're those figures you can't get out of boosters, and have silly names like "Hal Jordan" even when the figure is dressed as Green Lantern. :D

I originally flushed LEs mostly because I just disliked LEs as a concept... as a collector, you were forced to either go to tournaments (bleah!), conventions (bleah!), or pay through the nose on eBay (super-bleah!). So my reasons for banning LEs was more of a personal distaste for the nasty things.

Now it seems like there's even a play-balance reason to keep them out.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby K26dp » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:33 pm

Stimpy wrote:But as far as the LE's it widens the choices for very many figs. And bumps pieces like Kyle from 4th to 2nd round.

Ah, but no one thinks of that poor LE-less character that would have been a 2nd-round pick that gets bumped to the 4th round.

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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Impulse-ive » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:22 pm

K26dp wrote:
Stimpy wrote:But as far as the LE's it widens the choices for very many figs. And bumps pieces like Kyle from 4th to 2nd round.

Ah, but no one thinks of that poor LE-less character that would have been a 2nd-round pick that gets bumped to the 4th round.

You play with the cards that are dealt to you, and players adapt.


I liked having LE's this year. Sometimes the most playable fig is it's LE. Look At Nova. I only once played the Vet to get a deeper dial. Other than that the HSS was the only reason i drafted him.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby greenandgold » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:14 pm

Time to get this thread fired up again and get some invites out for year 6.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Hero_of_angels » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:19 pm

I think the simplest solution to the LE problem is simply wait til sign-ups are done, then open a poll. Make sure in the sign-ups that you state people will need to vote and that it has not been decided yet, just so people aren't mislead.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:57 pm

well when you get ready..Im in. I wont have any problems staying around the entire season this time. ;)
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Jason Potapoff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 pm

Impulse-ive wrote:
I liked having LE's this year. Sometimes the most playable fig is it's LE. Look At Nova. I only once played the Vet to get a deeper dial. Other than that the HSS was the only reason i drafted him.


True. But there are also some LEs out there that seem more potent than their point cost suggest (the Hulk and the Dark Beast, and of course the Crisis Supermen). Also I think a lot of the confusion of which figures are considered the same character and which are considered separate characters is compounded by LEs (Dark Best and Superman being the obvious examples of these.)

I also find having LEs around made things a bit confusing when it came around to playing the games. I saw some games people were confused which figure was being used because it wasn't clear if the REV was used or the LE. Seems to me that removing the LEs helps simplify a fair number of problems.

Another bonus to dropping LEs is that it reduces the number of good figures out there. Some may disagree with me but I think that's a good thing. One of the things that has changed in the Playground is the number of quality figures that are available. Since there are so many figures out now, and we will probably have less teams than even last year, the talent pool is still going to be large even with the retirements we have been doing. One of the things that really made the Playground special in the early seasons was the fact that there were only so many good figures available. That was the a defining feature of the draft, to limit the amount of good figures on each team. It was a real tough choice on who to draft, and often teams were forced to play with figures they normally wouldn't play since they had only so many top notch figures.

Now the strength of the figure pool is so high that even the late rounds are still potent. I know I barely used all of my figures last season.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby greenandgold » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:58 pm

Maybe we limit it to restricted figures to limit the pool of figures?
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Jason Potapoff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:26 pm

greenandgold wrote:Maybe we limit it to restricted figures to limit the pool of figures?


I have considered that but there are so many characters that are restricted that I like, it may limit people's themes way too much. It would reduce the number of figures DC has by a lot. Also you will lose a lot of the REVs seeing how REVs have been gone for a few expansions.

On the other hand it would help cut down the talent pool a ton and the Playground would go back to forcing people to play a lot of the poorer figures.

Perhaps retiring everything that came before Icons?
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:58 am

perhaps limit the character choices to unrestricted, but not the versions...

this would make the playground very dynamic.

ie as figures get retired , if there are no 'current versions of them available, they drop into the unavailable pool...if a figure gets remade, all versions of him become avaialbe.

pretty simple really and as I mentioned would make the Playground dynamic as a mechanic comes into play that moves figures back and forth from year to year.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Hero_of_angels » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:22 am

That's not a bad idea clixhunter, but then you'd need a list of who hasn't had an update yet. Might be a little tedious to make. Plus, I can think of at least three figs that's only non-retired version is a duo piece. What then? Draft the Duo and get both? Or still allow both to be drafted separately, just let either captain use the duos?

One of the first things we'd need to do is classify what exactly falls under LE's. Obviously, the named pieces from the pre-Avengers sets are all LE's. But then, we have Chase pieces, BIBTB pieces and NGN pieces. And as previously stated, some of the LE's are the best version of the piece. I know I wouldn't have taken Genis-Vell without his LE, b/c his LE is a far deadlier piece than the REV. With all the new rule changes that came with the F4 starter, honestly, there aren't many game-breaking LE's. I keep hearing talk of the Crisis Supermen. Honestly, they're not that hard to kill. I think R Black Panther and V Firelord could give him quite the run for his money, and it wouldn't be that hard for them. Any piece is good, but that's one of the great things about Playground, good doesn't mean unbeatable.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:33 am

Ive already started on it ;)

The big question is if it went that way would we use sets that were due to be retired shortly? ie super nova? or use the current list.

and I still like the idea of not keeping LE's out.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:05 am

Ive got a good jump on the compiled list so far...so G&G can see what that looks like. I should have it finished in a day or two. saved it as a draft here so It will be easy to adjust.

Still have to do:
Secret Invasion
Batman: Alpha
Crisis
Mutations and Monsters

done:
Justice League
Avengers
Legion of Super-Heroes
Hellboy and the B.P.R.D.
Origin
2099
Supernova
Days of Future Past
Green Lantern Corps
Invincible
Giants
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:43 pm

Ok this is all the sets that arent retired as of right now...still a big list...lol theres a few I wasnt sure of the ruling on.so they are marked accorcindly...


1. Abe Sapien
2. Abin Sur
3. Abomination
4. Abra Kadabra
5. Absorbing Man
6. Accomplished Perfect Physician
7. Ace
8. Adam Warlock/Magus
9. Agent Brand
10. Ahab
11. Alex Luthor
12. Alfred Pennyworth
13. Allen the Alien
14. Alloy
15. Amazo
16. Angel/Archangel
17. Angstrom Levy
18. Annihilus
19. Animal Man
20. Ant-Man/Giant-Man (Henry Pym)
21. Apocalypse
22. Aqualad/Tempest
23. Aquaman (Arthur Curry)
24. Aquaman II
25. Arachne
26. Arcade
27. Ares (Marvel)
28. Arisia
29. Atom (Ray Palmer)
30. Atom Eve
31. Atom Smasher
32. Attuma
33. August General in Iron
34. Aztek
35. Bane
36. Baron Zemo
38. Batgirl/Oracle (Barbara Gordon)
39. Batgirl II
40. Batman (Bruce Wayne)
41. Batman (JL 1,000,000)
42. Batwoman
43. Batzarro
44. Beast/Dark Beast
45. Big Barda
46. Bishop
47. Black Adam
48. Black Canary
49. Black Hand
50. Black Panther
51. Black Tom Cassidy
52. Black Widow/Iron Widow
53. Blazing Skull
54. Blue Beetle II (Ted Kord)
55. Blue Beetle III
56. Box
57. Bronze Tiger
58. Brood ???? (has this one been ruled a generic?)
59. Booster Gold/Supernova
60. Bouncing Boy
61. Bulldozer
62. Bulleteer
63. Captain America (Steve Rogers)
64. Captain America (Isiah Bradley)
65. Captain Atom/Monarch
66. Captain Ben Daimio
67. Captain Boomarang (Digger)
68. Captain Britain
69. Captain Marvel, Jr
70. Captain Mar-Vell
71. Cassandra Nova
72. Cat-Man
73. Catwoman
74. Ch'p
75. Chamber
76. Chemo
77. Chief
78. Chronos
79. Citizen V
80. Clayface (Basil Karlo)
81. Clea
82. Cloak
83. Colossal Boy
84. Colossus
85. Commissioner Gordon
86. Copperhead
87. Cosmic Boy
88. Creeper
89. Crimson Fox
90. Crossbones
91. Cuckoo
92. Cyborg Superman
93. Cyclops
94. Dagger
95. Damage
96. Danger
97. Darkhawk
98. Darkseid
99. Dawnstar
100. Dazzler
101. Deadman
102. Deathstroke
103. Devil Dinosaur and Moon Boy
104. Doctor Spectrum
105. Doomsday
106. Dr. Alchemy
107. Dr. Doom
108. Dr. Fate
109. Dr. Light
110. Dr. Octopus
111. Dr. Polaris
112. Dr. Sivana
113. Dr. Strange
114. Dragon Man
115. Drax The Destroyer
116. Dream Girl
117. Dum Dum Dugan
118. Elektra
119. Energizer
120. Fabian Cortez
121. Falcon
122. Firelord
123. Firehawk
124. Firestorm (Jason Rusch)
125. Flash (Barry Allen)
126. Flash/Kid Flash (Wally West)
127. Flash (??? forget name at moment. John?/JL)
128. Forerunner
129. Gambit
130. Gamora
131. Ganthet
132. Gargoyle
133. Gee
134. Gentleman Ghost
135. Giganta
136. Ghost Rider (2099)
137. G'nort
138. Gold
139. Goliath
140. Gorgon
141. Granny Goodness
142. Graviton
143. Gravity
144. Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
145. Green Arrow (Conner)
146. Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
147. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
148. Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)
149. Green Lantern (Kyle Raynor)
150. Grey Gargoyle
151. Grim Reaper
152. Gypsy
153. Halo
154. Harbinger
155. Harley Quinn
156. Hawk
157. Hawkeye (Clint Barton)
158. Hawkeye II (Kate Bishop)
159. Hawkman
160. Heatwave
161. Hector Hammond
162. Hellboy
163. Hercules
164. High Evolutionary
165. Hourman (Android)
166. Howard the Duck
167. Hulk
168. Hulkling
169. Human Torch (Jim Hammond)
170. Human Torch (Johnny Storm)
171. Huntress
172. Hyperion
173. Icicle
174. Iceman
175. Immortus
176. Impossible Man
177. Invincible
178. Invisible Girl/Malice
179. Iron
180. Iron Fist
181. Iron Lad
182. Iron Man
183. Jack of Hearts
184. Jakeem Thunder
185. Jarvis
186. Jericho
187. Johann Kraus
188. Johnny Quick
189. Johnny Thunder
190. Joker
191. Jubilee
192. Junkpile
193. Justice/Marvel Boy
194. Karate Kid
195. Kang
196. Karnak
197. Katma Tui
198. Killer Croc
199. King Shark
200. Klarion
201. Knockout
202. Korg
203. Korvac
204. Kristoff
205. Legacy/Captain Marvel/Photon (Genis Vell)
206. Lex Luthor
207. Liberty Belle/Jesse Quick
208. Lightning Lad
209. Lightspeed
210. Lionheart
211. Living Laser
212. Living Monolith
213. Liz Sherman
214. Lobo
215. Lois Lane
216. Machine Man
217. Mad Hatter
218. Majestrix Lilandra
219. Major Disaster
220. Mammoth
221. Mandarin
222. Mano
223. Mantis
224. Mass Master
225. Martian Manhunter
226. Marvel Girl/Jean Gray/Phoenix I/Black Queen
227. Mary Marvel
228. Mastermind
229. Maverick
230. Mean Streak
231. Mercury
232. Mento
233. Mephisto
234. Merlyn
235. Miek
236. Mimic
237. Mirror Master
238. Mister Mind
239. Mister Miracle
240. Molecule Man
241. Mole Man
242. Mon-El
243. Monitor
244. Moon Knight
245. Morbius
246. Mordru
247. Morph
248. Mr. Fantastic
249. Mr. Freeze
250. Mr. Mxyzptlk
251. Namorita
252. Negative Woman
253. Nick Fury
254. Night Thrasher
255. Nightwing/Robin (Dick Grayson)
256. Nocturne
257. Nova (Richard Ryder)
258. Omega Red
259. Omni-Man
260. Parasite
261. Patriot
262. Penguin
263. Pete Wisdom
264. Phantom Girl
265. Phantom Lady
266. Phantom Stranger
267. Phoenix/Hound (Rachel Summers)
268. Piledriver
269. Plastic Man
270. Poison Ivy
271. Powerman/Luke Cage
272. Power Princess
273. Power Ring
274. Professor Ivo
275. Professor X
276. Proteus
277. Psimon
278. Psycho-Man
279. Psycho-Pirate
280. Punisher (Frank Castle)
281. Punisher (2099)
282. Question
283. Quicksilver
284. Ra's al-Ghul
285. Ravage (2099)
286. Ray
287. Raza
288. Red Ghost
289. Red Hood
290. Red Skull
291. Riddler
292. Ringmaster
293. Rip Hunter
294. Rita Farr
295. Robin (Tim Drake)
296. Robot
297. Robotman
298. Roger
299. Ronin/Echo?
300. Sage/Tessa
301. Sandman
302. Saturn Girl
303. Scarecrow
304. Scarlet Witch
305. Shadow Thief
306. Shang-Chi
307. Sharon Carter
308. Shatterstar
309. Shazam!
310. She-Hulk
311. She-Thing
312. Shimmer
313. Shining Knight
314. Shrinking Violet
315. Silver Surfer
316. Sinestro
317. Skrull Emperor
318. Skymax
319. Speedball
320. Speedy/Arsenal/Red Arrow (Roy Harper)
321. Spider-Girl
322. Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
323. Spider-Woman
324. Spitfire
325. Stardust
326. Starhawk/Aleta
327. Star Man (Ted Knight)
328. Starfire
329. Starfox
330. Star Sapphire
331. Stature
332. Steel (John Henry Irons)
333. Stingray
334. Storm
335. STRIPE
336. Strong Guy
337. Sub-Mariner/Namor
338. Sunspot
339. Super-Adaptoid
340. Super-Apes
341. Supergirl
342. Superman (Clark Kent)
343. Superman (JL 1,000,000)
344. Super Skrull
345. Super-Skrull: Avengers (Generic??)
346. Super Skrull: Illuminati (Generic??)
347. Super Skrull: X-Men (Generic??)
348. Talia
349. Tarantula
350. Taskmaster
351. Terrax The Tamer
352. Thanos
353. Tharok
354. The Colonel
355. The Hood
356. The Leader
357. The Sentry
358. The Spectre
359. The Thing
360. Thin Man
361. Thor
362. Thor Girl
363. Thunderstrike
364. Timber Wolf
365. Time Trapper
366. Titan
367. Tomar Re
368. Toro
369. Tombstone
370. Toyman
371. Trigon
372. Triplicate Girl
373. Triton
374. Two-Face
375. Two-Gun Kid
376. Ultra Boy
377. Uncle Sam
378. Union Jack
379. Unus the Untouchable
380. U.S. Agent
381. Validus
382. Vance Astro/Majory Victory (Wasnt it ruled that he and Justice are diferent?)
383. Vandal Savage
384. Vigilante
385. Vision
386. Warbird/Binary/Ms. Marvel
387. Warskrull (Generic??)
388. Wasp
389. Weapon Alpha/Guardian/Vindicator (James Hudson)
390. White Queen/Emma Frost
391. Wiccan
392. Wildcat
393. Winter Soldier/Bucky
394. Wolverine/Patch/Logan/Weapon-X/Col Logan
395. Wonder Girl/Troia (Donna Troy)
396. Wonder Girl (Cassie Sandsmark)
397. Wonder Man
398. Wonder Woman (Queen Hippolyta)
399. Wonder Woman (Artemus)
400. Wonder Woman (JL 1,000,000)
401. Wrecker
402. X-23
403. Yondu
404. Zatanna
405. Zauriel
406. Zzzax
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:06 pm

while I was doing this, I came up with another way of doing it...have each Capt submit a list of characters to be put in the draft pool....1 character from each set, placing all the collectors sets in one ...it should be around 25 figures for each Capt.

Probably about 1/3 will end up being on duplicate lists. ....

or something along those lines ;)
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby mwposse » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:26 pm

I realize most of the discussion has been about LE's and what clix to include (which I'm fine with either way as long as we know before the draft) but I have another general suggestion. Is there any way we can allow above the board trading of draft picks. For me, the most fun part of any league is the draft iteslf. Last season, I was involved in a couple of draft pick trades (including a huge one) and it really added to the fun for me. I think it can be done in a much less confusing way if the captains just announce and verify the trade and then keep track of their acquired draft slots themselves (not looking to add work to the commish's plate). I also think it would make the draft more fair for everyone else. It may have changed some people's draft strategy if they knew I was picking for another captain, and he for me in so many rounds. A captain may have looked at my upcoming pick and thought "Well, he already has 2 PCers so he won't be picking a 3rd so I can wait for next pick to pick up a PCer..." not knowing that both of my Pcers were drafted for another captain and I defintiely needed one.

So basically, if it can be done in a way that will not add any hassle for anyone except the captians involved, can we openly trade picks?
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby Hero_of_angels » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:21 pm

The open trading might not be bad, but I think keeping things secret makes things a little more challenging. I do think a complete schedule before the draft might help too (I think this is usually done), as it allows you to see who your future opponents will pick and who you should pick accordingly.

As to your list, Clixhunter, what about the Skrulls from SI? Ms. Skrulvel and Skrellowjacket aren't too bad, but I really don't think they should be tied to their real counterparts. Just throwing it out there.
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Re: PFHL Season 6 Brainstorming

Postby clixhunter » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:00 pm

Hero_of_angels wrote:
As to your list, Clixhunter, what about the Skrulls from SI? Ms. Skrulvel and Skrellowjacket aren't too bad, but I really don't think they should be tied to their real counterparts. Just throwing it out there.


Thats true, I deliberately left them off...but maybe they should be included...

Capt Skrull-Vell, Dum Dum Skrullen

and Skrulltra also

(I think thats all of them)
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